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December 01, 2008, 11:07:47 pm *
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Author Topic: Err this is annoying.. venting and a few questions about studing tactics  (Read 994 times)
drake
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« on: September 11, 2008, 12:02:18 am »

Man, I am starting to wonder if I am thinking on the right lines, i usually find the 2nd best and maybe 3rd best (not sure cause i don't see the variants).  I hardly see the mainline at first, especially if the problems are 4 moves deep!  And there are problems I swear I am right, to find out after plugging in to a comp that I am totally wrong because I over looked something or something stupid... makes me feel real dumb... that is when I make myself take a break.

So just wondering, how long do you typically study tactics?  Like today i been on/off all morning and afternoon... This is atypical for me, as I only try to do this kind of studying right after I wake up in the morning, then move on to something else.  I try to go to OTB games during the week at least 2-3 times a week.

Think I am spending too much time going over these tactics? i.e. causing burn out and blundering away? Or am I on the right track, just need more time and practicing to 'see' things easier?

drake

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newlook
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 04:25:33 am »

I think that using unrated mode for problems below your rating is better for study. When you are doing rated problems, you will tend to get about 50% correct (in standard at least). That means you can do relatively few problems because those problems are matched for your rating and thus challenging. I would rather do more problems and master the easier ones.

For example, my rating is a little below 1700. I practice on 1100-1299 (~95% accuracy) and 1300-1399 (~90% accuracy). Occasionally I will do a few rated problems, which are challenging and let me push my limits. So the mix I like is mostly easy problems to improve visual pattern recognition and a few problems at my level to improve my calculation ability.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 05:14:37 am by newlook » Logged

texian
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 06:53:46 am »

i like newlook's approach toward building a solid foundation .. is that an option in the premium edition?

like Drake, i start most days with tactics and coffee .. when i begin a CT session, i warmup with a set of missed problems, oldest first .. when i miss a problem again or recognize and remember the sollution on review, i copy the problem line from my problem history display and keep it in a text file named CT Multiple Misses .. having just begun this practice i have only 13 such problems - only 4 are +100 points above my current rating, 1611, the majority are near or below my rating .. i don't have the stats, but i've noticted i tend to miss about 40% and remain clueless about what exactily i am missing .. periodically, i intend to re-review these problems, lowest rated first .. removing them from my review list as i gain mastery .. now, i'm wondering if the premium edition might offer this too?

Drake, out of curiousity, i took a look at your problem history when i finished mine yesterday .. i'd estimate on average, i am spending up to 10X more time on most problems as you .. i have really SLOWED DOWN in analyzing problems forcing myself to not answer until i can see and trust at least 2-3 moves into the problem .. often i'l even take a break while working a problem, or have breakfast, etc, between problems .. my most annoying error is when i quickly make a move with little analysis in an unexpected variation 3 or 4 moves into the solution .. i'm working on slowing down there too

yesterday, for example, all my chess time was wholly devoted to tactics .. at the point where i finished, Drake, we had both worked about 36 problems, a very long session for me these days .. my overall clock time was 4 hours, yours about one hour .. as i've suggested elsewhere, i think this slowing down approach is helping with my overall visualization and seeing combinations which is my primary focus, for now .. my logic is to build a strong set of tactical fundamentals and improved look ahead vision before worrying with the many other aspects of the game, all needing serious attention .. with analysis of games i play, Crafty is doing a good job at teaching me endgame situations where i am badly missing mate opportunities and other blunders

i'm not suggesting my approach is better, in fact most might find it quite boring .. mine is just different and offered as food for thought, yours and mine .. we each have unique learning styles .. as a former teacher and life long learner, i suspect the golden key is discovering what works for each learner .. except for the very experienced tournament players, ratings, imo, are not necessarily a very good measurement of learning or knowledge, but rather simply a measurement of individual progress .. since, i shifted to slowing down my CT rating has increased over 200 points in less than two weeks after dipping to a low point when mindlessly working 200-300 problems one day on Labor Day weekend ..  more importantly, my gut check continues to tell me i am learning, but i know i have just begun

Drake, i know you have sound and broad knowledge as well as excellent pattern recognition skills .. days like yesterday apparently was for you happen to us all .. yesterday was frustrating for me, too, even though i was up nearly 30 rating points at one time, i just didn't feel as if i was seeing the board .. rather than pushing myself, as i've often done before, i just put it all aside .. i quickly discovered i really needed some sleep .. having the opportunity, i napped on an off all day .. rested now, i am feeling much better, but my days and nights are now reversed - here it is just after midnight and i just finished breakfast and am on my second cup of coffee .. so it goes Wink

[on a personal note, Hurricane Ike has shifted and is bearing down on the upper Texas coast .. with Drake and i, living near Houston, now well within in the "cone of probability", we will be battening down the hatches soon with landfall expected late Friday .. so, send us some positive thoughts .. we are going to be on the dirty side of this storm where the wind and rains are most severe .. three years ago we were on the clean side of Rita and without power almost two weeks here in my rural community where numerous trees and power lines cause frequent and lengthy outages .. hopefully, the storm will fizzle or change course again, but they tend to strengthen over the warm open waters in the Gulf of Mexico and predicted trend lines are pretty accurate these days .. i'm headed to the library later for a good chess book .. i may well have a few days or more for reading Undecided ]
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 12:23:28 pm by texian » Logged

Still learning after all these years
texian
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 01:15:47 pm »

yesterday, distracted by storm warnings and a situation with a renter, i tried a set of about 50 problems in two hours .. i knew i was distracted and worked individual problems much quicker than i ordinarily do .. the results on quick review this morming were notable - lost nearly 50 rating points  Embarrassed

add working problems when distracted as annoying and possibly a waste of time
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Still learning after all these years
andreacoda
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« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 01:17:07 pm »

Same here (just at a much lower rating) - I have realized that trying to solve problems when you cannot give them your full and undivided attention, is just plain useless...
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drake
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 01:34:23 pm »

Yea I was fairly distracted yesterday, had board up my house, helped neighbors, set up a nunn's test in fritz ... well didn't have to do that, just wanted to compare fritz 11 vs rybka 2.2 23-bit (as of now its +1 =2 -0 out of 20 games). but in the morning before I did all this work, I played around and did some problems and actually increased my rating by a few points.  As i am sitting here, Ike is heading directly for Galveston Bay, really close to where I live.. I am slightly distracted.

Quote
AT 700 AM CDT THE CENTER OF HURRICANE IKE WAS LOCATED NEAR
LATITUDE 26.9 NORTH LONGITUDE 92.2 WEST OR ABOUT 230 MILES
SOUTHEAST OF GALVESTON TEXAS.

But anyways back to chess... I find that after looking at a hard problem/situation that taking a short break i.e. typing this message, often clears my head and allows me to go back and see the answer.

Trust me, I have slowed down a lot doing tactics, i am only going to get slower.. Maybe I'll get as slow as texian Smiley

drake
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newlook
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 03:20:38 pm »

i like newlook's approach toward building a solid foundation .. is that an option in the premium edition?

Yes, it is. You can use the search function to create and save custom problem sets. The problem rating is one criterion you can use. Chess Tempo keeps track of your results for each custom set.
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andreacoda
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 04:02:49 pm »

Quoting newlook, I think it is VERY good value for money - we should have no excuses not to go, if not for Gold, at least for a Silver membership!  Grin

Go Richard go, keep up the good work!!! (Just worried here that if his earnings are not good enough, he will just leave all of us homeless...)  Roll Eyes
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richard
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 10:43:42 pm »

Don't worry Andrea, You will not be left homeless :-) I plan to keep the site up independent of how many paid subscriptions occur.  However time spent on adding new features over time is somewhat related to how many signups come in :-)

Regards,
Richard.
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 10:39:59 pm by richard » Logged
drake
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 03:54:58 am »

I like the idea of making your own problem set and such, but I will not be able to obtain membership here simply case of current events... gotta fix things up after the Hurricane Ike... there is a ton of work here to do.  Anyways I will and have continued working on problems as I get a chance ... just my time is limited.

Hopefully everyone else is doing fine and haven't had the unfortunate chance of being in this hurricane.

Hope everyone is improving their game! And Richard keep up the good work.

drake
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andreacoda
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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2008, 08:00:20 am »

I just realized now that my comment, that was intended as a funny thing, may result offensive. Please do accept my sincere apologies, of course I did not intend it that way – I hate seeing people feeling they have to “excuse themselves” – please accept my apologies, if I offended anyone’s sensibility, it was not intentional, and I did not want to sound judgmental at all…
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chipschap
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2008, 01:42:25 am »

Same here (just at a much lower rating) - I have realized that trying to solve problems when you cannot give them your full and undivided attention, is just plain useless...

With one realistic exception.  When you play in a tournament, you may in fact be distracted, not feeling your best, etc., but you still have to play.  So when I have a computer available I make sure to do a minimum 10 rated standard problems a day, day in and day out (unless I'm out of town on business, vacation, or the like).  This is whether or not I feel well or have distractions or other issues.

On good days, of course, I will do more problems, but I think it is important to force yourself to do some baseline level of practice each day you can.
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kahwokah
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2008, 08:44:52 pm »

I just made this plan for myself... I hope to reach 1700+ with it... Wink

************************************************************************
         a]first look
- judging the position must be natural as the blood in my veins -
************************************************************************
-check for:

   -free figures (not protected)
   and
   -simple mate
   and   
   -weak structures [low protected points]
   
   ->is it about a mate or winning something?!
   ->nothing found yet? -> then calculate.

************************************************************************
         b] second thought
      - "solving" the position systematically -
************************************************************************
-BE SURE ABOUT:

   -combinations creating weak/free figures
      (= by removing protection or a mate-threat)
   or
   -combinations destroying weak structures leading to mate

************************************************************************
-BLUNDER SOURCE No1: THE WRONG IDEA OR BEGINNING
and
-BLUNDER SOURCE No2: TRYING to get a figure instead of FINISHING IT !!!

SO REMEMBER:
there MUST BE a DETERMINED WAY for MATE, or else, WINNING MATERIAL !!!
************************************************************************
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 08:46:32 pm by kahwokah » Logged
kahwokah
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2008, 08:51:21 pm »

I try to minimize Blunder source No1 by calculating the whole variant. Sure it takes longer, but i learn something... and source No2 should be reduced by thinking about checkmates... each time i move....

Well its of course to early to speak from "real results", but I guess it would be  worth posting my statistics... reminding blunder-checking and solving problems is really great... did somebody it for 24h non-stop?! Im thinking about it... Wink Iam for sure scaring myself

p.s.: from 1500 to 1700
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 09:48:48 pm by kahwokah » Logged
andreacoda
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 08:56:56 am »

That's a heck of a steady improvement - congrats on a great job!
Whatever you are doing, it must be working!  Wink
Andrea
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