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Author Topic: Rating Chess tempo and FIDE....  (Read 61050 times)
drahacikfm
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« Reply #60 on: Nov 21, 2008, 12:06:47 AM »

Uri,

I don't think you can draw any conclusions for 3 reasons:

1) Three tournament games is nothing.  You can't make any conclusions from that small a sample.

2) Tactics training should be only one part of preparation for tournaments.  Maybe 25% of it.  There is also opening study, endgame study, middlegame strategy, and positional chess.  Your results might even get worse if you take time away from those other topics to do mostly tactics.

3) As Richard mentioned you have done almost 20,000 problems on CTS, 90 times as many as here on CT!  So it is not logical to conclude anything about CT.  Any conclusions should be about your CTS training.

If you want to conclude that your tournament play is worse (which you can't conclude from 3 games), then the most logical conclusion is that doing thousands of blitz problems on CTS has made it worse.  That promotes superficial calculation which is well-known to hurt tournament performance.
« Last Edit: Nov 21, 2008, 12:11:17 AM by drahacikfm » Logged

FIDE Master Drahacik
uri blass
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« Reply #61 on: Nov 21, 2008, 05:14:57 AM »

Uri,

I don't think you can draw any conclusions for 3 reasons:

1) Three tournament games is nothing.  You can't make any conclusions from that small a sample.

2) Tactics training should be only one part of preparation for tournaments.  Maybe 25% of it.  There is also opening study, endgame study, middlegame strategy, and positional chess.  Your results might even get worse if you take time away from those other topics to do mostly tactics.

3) As Richard mentioned you have done almost 20,000 problems on CTS, 90 times as many as here on CT!  So it is not logical to conclude anything about CT.  Any conclusions should be about your CTS training.

If you want to conclude that your tournament play is worse (which you can't conclude from 3 games), then the most logical conclusion is that doing thousands of blitz problems on CTS has made it worse.  That promotes superficial calculation which is well-known to hurt tournament performance.

1)I agree about 1

2)I did not train about opening but only about tactics because I have more fun with it.
Avoiding tactical mistakes could clearly cause me to get better results and even if I get inferior position in the opening then I still believe that it is hard to beat me in case that I only know to avoid tactical errors(the main problem is that I fail in the last task of avoiding tactical errors in inferior positions).

In the first game that I lost I simply lost a pawn because of not seeing the only move that save the pawn(I considered that move for a second and thought that it is losing a pawn but I was wrong and it was an illusion).

The position was slightly better for my opponent but I believe that I could at least get a draw in case of finding the right move.
Later I also failed in finding the best defence when I was a pawn down.

In the second loss I got inferior position out of the opening that I did not evaluate correctly but my opponent lost most of his advantage and again I believe that I could get at least a draw by avoiding tactical mistakes.

I think that my mistake was also that I decided to try to win in the opening so I generated some position that I thought that is less clear that was simply better for my opponent when I did not understand it instead of playing for a draw against a player with better rating.

Inspite of it I think that the main problem in that game was that in time trouble I did not like move X when I had only few minutes to finish the game(with 30 seconds increasement) so I played move Y that was even worse without checking it.

I do not think that solving problems cause me to be weaker but only that it did not help.

The main problem is that even CTS problems are usually not problems of avoiding losing a pawn blunders that I consider as one of the most important blunders in chess and they include only cases when there is a single move not to lose that are not always the cases when I blunder.

3)The fact that I improved my standard rating contradicts the opinion that I
use superficial calculation.

Note also that in the last 2 weeks I used more CT relative to CTS because I have fun with improving my rating and I find it easier to improve my standard rating in CT relative to improving my rating in CTS.

I think that you can also say that training in CT can encourage thinking
for too much time because there is no time limit and my main problem is not playing too fast and maybe I tend to play too slowly.

Uri
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oded ross
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« Reply #62 on: Dec 21, 2008, 01:15:28 AM »

Israeli Rating: 2047
Fide Rating: should have been about the same if my second tournament would have been sent (I only have one)
CT standard: ~2400
CT Blitz: ~2350 (currently top-10 on both lists)
CTS: 1750-1800
FICS (both blitz and lightning): 1750-1800 (I rarely play)

I only play one or two OTB tournaments a year, and league games (there are about 10 a year with 90+30 time controls).
I guess I am overperforming here in a way, but I consider tactical ability a strong side of my game, and solving problems in general (I was ranked in the country's top 10 several times, and Israel is a multiple world champion at this field; true, only studies have a real correlation to real chess where direct mates, helpmates and selfmates have little to do with it). My opening knowledge is poor for a player at my level, and the positional aspects could be better too.

I don't know if I play enough OTB to know if this site helps me or not.
I do know that as you go down the rankings, say <1700, over 95% of games are being decided by tactics and not by careful positional play and "grinding". I think this site is more help to players under 2000.
I think for me it is more fun than learning.

Here are the stats for two of my chess friends (I know they wouldn't mind, but none of them will care enough to post here):

Dan83
Israeli Rating: ~2230
Fide Rating: ~2120
CT standard: N/A
CT Blitz: 2350-2400 (currently top-10)
CTS: ~1800

Baron Tal (tal is the first name, an extremely talented 16 y.o.)
Israeli Rating: ~2370
Fide Rating:  2300 (just made an IM norm in a very strong ISR-ch final, beating and drawing several GMs - I expect him to be an IM next year)
CT Blitz: ~2560 (registered last week and quickly gained #1, currently inactive)
[CT standard: ~2150 but with less than 50 problems made]


While on the subject of Fide Rating, Richard, how many users titled FM and above are here? If possible, usernames and real names would be nice  Smiley
One more thing - when making your average stats you should totally rule out blitz ratings of people who last played before the May major upgrade - they are inflated by many hunderds of points.
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richard
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« Reply #63 on: Dec 21, 2008, 09:15:38 AM »

Hi Oded Ross,

I noticed tal's impressive blitz results here. I have no data to back it up but I suspect the very good younger players are more likely to have larger gaps between their tactical and positional/opening/endgame play than older players (with generally much stronger tactical play), I wonder what others think about this hypothesis.

I can't really name names on the >=FM front as the FIDE ids submitted by users are treated as private data.  There is also the problem that often users don't submit FIDE ids even when they have them (sometimes I can guess from email addresses who the player is).  At the moment in the standard top 10 there are
2 IMs
2 FMs
4 without titles.
2 Unknown

There have occasionally been GMs on the blitz top 10 but none that are currently active (to my knowledge).

At some point I'm going to write some code to grab latest FIDE/USCF data for users who have submitted FIDE ids so I can display some (anonymized) data on rating correlations.

Good point on the averages for blitz, for some purposes I only include currently active users when calculating stats but not for the user rating averages I've mentioned recently.
I'll probably have a user equivalent to the 'problem stats' page when I have time to put it together and I'll at least have a separate active user average there.


Regards,
Richard.



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bluehorizon
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« Reply #64 on: Dec 21, 2008, 10:01:13 AM »

I expect quite a few of us have ECF Id# but not FIDE. My ECF is 94 which correlates roughly to 1720 Elo. The UK are readjusting the grades for next year to combat the rating deflation we've seen - so for the new system I am currently ECF 129 which is ~1682 Elo under the new calculation. If you want to provide an ECF box I'm happy to add my ID on there.

So...

Approximated FIDE ~ 1700 Elo
CT standard ~ 1750 (fairly stable now)
CT Blitz ~ 1800 (not many problems done yet)

Dave
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A bad day of chess is better than any good day at work...
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richard
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« Reply #65 on: Dec 21, 2008, 10:09:08 AM »

I've added adding ECF to the todo list (I'm embarrassed to admit I only just realised the BCF had changed it's name :-) ).

Richard.

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uri blass
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« Reply #66 on: Dec 21, 2008, 12:30:45 PM »

Hi Oded Ross,

I noticed tal's impressive blitz results here. I have no data to back it up but I suspect the very good younger players are more likely to have larger gaps between their tactical and positional/opening/endgame play than older players (with generally much stronger tactical play), I wonder what others think about this hypothesis.

I can't really name names on the >=FM front as the FIDE ids submitted by users are treated as private data.  There is also the problem that often users don't submit FIDE ids even when they have them (sometimes I can guess from email addresses who the player is).  At the moment in the standard top 10 there are
2 IMs
2 FMs
4 without titles.
2 Unknown

There have occasionally been GMs on the blitz top 10 but none that are currently active (to my knowledge).

At some point I'm going to write some code to grab latest FIDE/USCF data for users who have submitted FIDE ids so I can display some (anonymized) data on rating correlations.

Good point on the averages for blitz, for some purposes I only include currently active users when calculating stats but not for the user rating averages I've mentioned recently.
I'll probably have a user equivalent to the 'problem stats' page when I have time to put it together and I'll at least have a separate active user average there.


Regards,
Richard.





I do not think that Oded Ross clearly has a bigger gap between tactical and positional play relative to tal baron.

Even if we compare only blitz then
Oded Ross could achieve 2350 at blitz that is a gap of 300 elo relative to israeli rating
when tal baron could avhieve 2560 at blitz that is less than 200 elo better than his israeli rating.

I can only say that I feel that solving problems does not help my playing strength and I finished last week the worst tournament of my life with 1.5/7 against players
that most of them were weaker than me(CTS is certainly not the reason because I believe that I spent significant time on solving standard problems in CT during the tournament).

I decided to edit this post and posted more details about it in another thread.

Uri
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2008, 09:27:06 AM by uri blass » Logged
tomohawk
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« Reply #67 on: Dec 21, 2008, 02:04:20 PM »

IM
Canadian rating: roughly 2430
FIDE rating: roughly 2370
ICC blitz: roughly 2300
Edit: CTS 1825-1875 with accuracy near 94%
CT 2400-2450 accuracy around 88%
Age: 43
Chess instructor

I haven't played in a lot of tournaments the last fifteen years so those ratings are probably higher than my actual playing strength. This site is part of my plan to get prepared to be more active playing chess. My goal: become 2500 FIDE and a GM. ;-) We should always aim high, since even failure is a pleasure in such cases. :-)

Weaknesses: I am relatively lousy at calculation. Not so much the accuracy part, but I get fixated on certain moves and forget to make more lateral searches. I miss opponents' defensive resources when I find promising lines. My openings are wretched, due mostly to trying out new stuff (which is why my online rating is so bad). It was much easier to learn new openings 20 years ago. My brain was more maleable and there wasn't so much information. ;-)

Strengths: Competitive spirit. Don't tire easily, nor get nervous playing. Endgames pretty good. Like grinding and am relatively good at it. Take losing well and I don't let it bother me. Have supportive wife.

« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2008, 02:06:01 PM by tomohawk » Logged
milly
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« Reply #68 on: Dec 21, 2008, 11:35:32 PM »

For me goes very much the same like Tomohawk.
Similar age, also few tournament practice for the last 15 years, and preparing for a modest comeback. And lousy at calculations, deterioring memory for learning new openings (although openings used to be a strong part of my game).

Therefore, one remark: It's not about figuring the Ko-tactics in tournament chess, it's about improving vizualisation and accuracy in the bread-and-butter calculations, e.g. whether a certain positional plan works tactically, or during simplifications, etc. It's not enough to have a good positional understanding! - always you have to rely on your calculation abilities to realize your positional goals!

Uri Blass, considering your recent failure I think you might neglected the positional parts of the game; tournament chess isn't about king hunting generally (only sometimes and in a very final stage), but about all those little details which are waiting to be calculated correctly.

Ah, my ratings:

FM, somewhat above 2250
ICC blitz 2600, 5-minute 2300
CTS 1724, but I did only a few problems there
Chess tempo standard 2450, inflated through repetitions

Btw, it's easy to become a good blitz player with routine, some technique and fast 1-2-3-move tactics/patterns. The matter is the precision of deeper calculations, not so relevant for blitz but for tournament games.
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drahacikfm
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« Reply #69 on: Dec 22, 2008, 01:07:49 AM »

Something interesting happened to me recently.  Before finding Chess Tempo in May, I used to play two or three hours of 5-minute games every day on ICC.  Then I started using that time to do problems on Chess Tempo.  From June to December I played very little on ICC.  Last week I started playing again a fair amount, and my 5-minute rating jumped up 200 points and is very close to my all-time high and staying there.  In spite of 6 months with very little blitz practice.  I'm seeing much more in blitz games than I used to.

What is interesting is that on Chess Tempo I never do blitz problems.  Only Standard-rated and lots of easy problems (1300 to 1500) in unrated mode.  I suspect the thousands of easy problems are what improved my blitz chess, but I'm sure the Standard-rated helped too.
« Last Edit: Dec 22, 2008, 01:11:40 AM by drahacikfm » Logged

FIDE Master Drahacik
oded ross
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« Reply #70 on: Dec 22, 2008, 02:31:01 AM »

I noticed tal's impressive blitz results here. I have no data to back it up but I suspect the very good younger players are more likely to have larger gaps between their tactical and positional/opening/endgame play than older players (with generally much stronger tactical play), I wonder what others think about this hypothesis.
This hypothesis is true, I see it all the time, although I suspect there are better examples for it than this kid. And their opening knowledge is right up there with their tactical skills because most instructors put too much time into that instead of endgame principles and methods, which is where most of these talented kids play at a level 200-300 points lower.

drahacikfm, can you write down your "stats" here?
Uri, I am not a mod, but I think there are better threads here to discuss the reasons of success or failure in tournament play and the effects of tactical training (and I have some things to say about your recent one).
This thread is more about statistics and not-too-deep examination of these numbers.
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tama
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« Reply #71 on: Dec 26, 2008, 03:55:14 AM »

HMM well let my give some of my stats.... don't laugh, lol.

Fide Rating: (1 tournament Played EVER score 8/9) 1560.

ICC Rating Standard: 2050
ICC Rating Blitz 5 min: 1750

Chess Tempo Standard: 2530
CTS: 1650 but i haven't played there in over a year.

Not very impressive, cant wait till i get my hands on more Experience.
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uri blass
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« Reply #72 on: Dec 26, 2008, 01:09:21 PM »

HMM well let my give some of my stats.... don't laugh, lol.

Fide Rating: (1 tournament Played EVER score 8/9) 1560.

ICC Rating Standard: 2050
ICC Rating Blitz 5 min: 1750

Chess Tempo Standard: 2530
CTS: 1650 but i haven't played there in over a year.

Not very impressive, cant wait till i get my hands on more Experience.

I do not understand how do you have fide rating of 1560 with 8/9 in single tournament.

I think that you need to play against 9 players with fide rating to get fide rating of 1560

In theory it is possible in case that you play with players who have lower fide rating but practically it is impossible because there are almost no players with fide rating below 1550

searching the fide rating list shows that the minimal fide rating today is 1401 and rating below 1550 is very unpopular so I doubt it you really played against players with that fide rating(usually players with low fide rating are players who simply did poor results against stronger players).

Uri
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apsyrtos
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« Reply #73 on: Dec 26, 2008, 03:18:07 PM »

uri makes a very good point; grabbing a FIDE rating without playing in an open or U2200 section of a USCF tournament seems pretty unlikely.  and scoring 8/9 in the open section or U2200 and coming out as a 1560 is of course ridiculous.  perhaps tama meant 1560 USCF?
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tama
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« Reply #74 on: Dec 26, 2008, 08:37:37 PM »

Huh?? i was unrated so they made me play in the Class E section U 1400, and there were a lot of them. I never lost a game.
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